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| 1 | +# Reddit r/LocalLLaMA — The Working Memory Cliff |
| 2 | + |
| 3 | +**Title:** `[Research] We measured the working memory cliff of Llama-3.2-1B/3B-Q4 — both fall to 0% retrieval at <1% of their nominal 128K context window` |
| 4 | + |
| 5 | +**Flair:** `Research` |
| 6 | + |
| 7 | +--- |
| 8 | + |
| 9 | +## Body |
| 10 | + |
| 11 | +We've been pushing a "load the whole document instead of chunking" position for a while in this sub. Last month we showed [chunk-RAG hallucinated 7/7 questions while full-document inference got 7/7 correct](https://github.com/quantumaikr/quant.cpp/blob/main/docs/beyond-rag-manifesto.md) on a synthetic 600-token document with Llama-3.2-3B and 6.4× KV compression. Several of you pointed out — correctly — that 600 tokens is not a stress test. |
| 12 | + |
| 13 | +So we ran 204 NIAH trials at context lengths 256–2048 to find where the model actually breaks. The result is sharper than we expected. |
| 14 | + |
| 15 | +### The cliff |
| 16 | + |
| 17 | +**Llama-3.2-1B-Instruct-Q8_0** (graded cliff): |
| 18 | + |
| 19 | +| ctx | fp32 KV | 6.4× compressed | |
| 20 | +|---:|:-:|:-:| |
| 21 | +| 256 | 89% | 89% | |
| 22 | +| **512** | **100%** | **100%** | |
| 23 | +| 1024 | 44% | 22% | |
| 24 | +| 1536 | 0% | 0% | |
| 25 | +| 2048 | 0% | 0% | |
| 26 | + |
| 27 | +**Llama-3.2-3B-Instruct-Q4** (default loader; **step function**): |
| 28 | + |
| 29 | +| ctx | fp32 KV | 6.4× compressed | |
| 30 | +|---:|:-:|:-:| |
| 31 | +| 512 | 100% | 100% | |
| 32 | +| **1024** | **100%** | **100%** | |
| 33 | +| **1280** | **0%** | **0%** | |
| 34 | +| 1536–2048 | 0% | 0% | |
| 35 | + |
| 36 | +**1024 → 1280 is 256 tokens.** 18/18 → 0/18. There is no degradation interval. The model goes from following the chat-template instruction perfectly to completely ignoring it within a single 25% step in context length. |
| 37 | + |
| 38 | +Both models reach effective working memory at **less than 1% of their nominal 128K context window** (1B Q8 ≈ 0.4%, 3B Q4 ≈ 0.78%). |
| 39 | + |
| 40 | +### KV compression is orthogonal to the cliff |
| 41 | + |
| 42 | +We compared 6.4× `turbo_kv_4b -v q4 --k-window 128` against FP32 KV baseline across the same grid. **18 of 20 (model × ctx × method) cells are bit-for-bit identical between baseline and compressed.** The single disagreement is the 1B cliff cell where both methods sit at the noise floor anyway. |
| 43 | + |
| 44 | +We also re-ran the cliff transition with FP32 *weights* (`TQ_NO_Q4=1`) to rule out a quantization confound. Same cliff, same location: 100% at 1024, 0% at 1280, both with FP32 weights. **The cliff is a model property, not a KV-cache property and not a weight-quantization artifact.** |
| 45 | + |
| 46 | +### The failure mode is *not* "I don't know" |
| 47 | + |
| 48 | +Above the cliff, the model produces one of three things. The first two (wikitext continuation, header echoes) are unsurprising. The third one is the consequential one. |
| 49 | + |
| 50 | +**Synthesised hallucination, 1B fp32 ctx=1024:** |
| 51 | + |
| 52 | +> *"In 2023 Boulter was hired as the chief financial officer..."* |
| 53 | +
|
| 54 | +The haystack is a Wikipedia article about Robert Boulter (English actor). The needle is "The chief financial officer of Northwind Logistics is Sarah Chen, hired in 2023." The model **fused them** — produced a coherent invented sentence grafting the needle's "2023 hire" onto Boulter's biography. |
| 55 | + |
| 56 | +This is the same silent-hallucination failure mode that vector RAG produces on retrieval miss — happening in the regime that was supposed to *eliminate* it. |
| 57 | + |
| 58 | +### Honest scope |
| 59 | + |
| 60 | +- 2 models (1B, 3B), 3 needles, 1 language (English), 1 content domain (Wikipedia bio), 204 trials total. |
| 61 | +- We tried 8B (Llama-3.1-Q4_K_M) but each inference takes ~12 min on Metal — full grid is infeasible until we optimize the Q4_K_M kernel. v2 work. |
| 62 | +- The 22 pp gap at the 1B cliff cell between fp32 and compressed is not statistically significant at n=9 — we ran into a CLI bug attempting the seed sweep, fixed it mid-round, and left the proper stochastic robustness check for v2. |
| 63 | +- We tried 6 prompt formats and finalized on the most permissive one. Format-sensitivity is a separate ceiling worth measuring. |
| 64 | + |
| 65 | +If you can falsify the cliff at a different model, prompt, or language, we want the data. |
| 66 | + |
| 67 | +### Try it |
| 68 | + |
| 69 | +```bash |
| 70 | +git clone https://github.com/quantumaikr/quant.cpp |
| 71 | +cd quant.cpp |
| 72 | +cmake -B build_metal -DTQ_BUILD_METAL=ON && cmake --build build_metal -j8 |
| 73 | + |
| 74 | +# 1B Q8 sweep (~30 min on M-series) |
| 75 | +MODEL=models/Llama-3.2-1B-Instruct-Q8_0.gguf \ |
| 76 | + NIAH_CONTEXTS="256 512 1024 1536 2048" \ |
| 77 | + bash bench/niah_test.sh |
| 78 | +``` |
| 79 | + |
| 80 | +### Links |
| 81 | + |
| 82 | +- **Tech report (arXiv-style draft)**: `docs/paper/working-memory-cliff.md` in the repo |
| 83 | +- **Master table**: `bench/results/niah/master_table.md` |
| 84 | +- **Raw CSVs + per-run CLI logs**: `bench/results/niah/` |
| 85 | +- **GitHub**: https://github.com/quantumaikr/quant.cpp |
| 86 | + |
| 87 | +### What this changes about "Beyond RAG" |
| 88 | + |
| 89 | +The honest reframing: **Beyond RAG works for documents that fit in the model's *effective* working memory, which is 2–3 orders of magnitude smaller than the nominal context window** for the configurations we measured. Memory-wise, 128K context fits in 9.5 GB on a 16 GB Mac. Retrieval-wise, the 3B Q4 model stops following instructions at ~1024 tokens regardless of compression. Edge vendors making "long-context replaces RAG" claims should publish effective working memory measurements alongside memory allocation numbers — the gap is enormous. |
| 90 | + |
| 91 | +If you have NIAH data at 1B–3B scale on llama.cpp / MLC / ollama defaults, we'd love to compare. We want to know if this is a quant.cpp loader artifact or universal at this regime. |
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